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	Comments on: Will Christchurch be an Accessible City for Cycling?	</title>
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	<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/</link>
	<description>Regular people riding bicycles</description>
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		<title>
		By: Cyclomaniac		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-216</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cyclomaniac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-216</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

An excellent Youtube that explains how Holland got its cycling infrastructure (seen on the Spokes Canterbury facebook site). I was born in Holland and I never realised that so many people had to fight this hard  to get their cycle paths! They also demolished buildings to convert them into car parking (sounds vaguely familiar...)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M
(rush hour in downtown Utrecht, where are the cars??)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o</a></p>
<p>An excellent Youtube that explains how Holland got its cycling infrastructure (seen on the Spokes Canterbury facebook site). I was born in Holland and I never realised that so many people had to fight this hard  to get their cycle paths! They also demolished buildings to convert them into car parking (sounds vaguely familiar&#8230;)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M</a><br />
(rush hour in downtown Utrecht, where are the cars??)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-215</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 04:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-215</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You are not suggesting &quot;Observant&quot; that a bit of stroppiness  is called for ,  well  , it would be about time . lol  .  I love my ride to work and would hate to return to commuting with the mob.It would probably only take one serious near miss to be tempted . Sometimes it feels like cyclists are nothing more than  second class citizens .  The problem as I see it is the chicken egg dilemma . Change won&#039;t happen until there are enough cyclists to become a formidable lobby group . There won&#039;t be enough cyclists until things are a bit safer and easier for them .  So we limp on in frustration. It is a pity that now seems the ideal time to make significant change  , yet how ?.  It seems to be the &#039;marching in protest &#039; season right now for everyone else  , perhaps a well co-ordinated rally of cyclist power would be appropriate .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are not suggesting &#8220;Observant&#8221; that a bit of stroppiness  is called for ,  well  , it would be about time . lol  .  I love my ride to work and would hate to return to commuting with the mob.It would probably only take one serious near miss to be tempted . Sometimes it feels like cyclists are nothing more than  second class citizens .  The problem as I see it is the chicken egg dilemma . Change won&#8217;t happen until there are enough cyclists to become a formidable lobby group . There won&#8217;t be enough cyclists until things are a bit safer and easier for them .  So we limp on in frustration. It is a pity that now seems the ideal time to make significant change  , yet how ?.  It seems to be the &#8216;marching in protest &#8216; season right now for everyone else  , perhaps a well co-ordinated rally of cyclist power would be appropriate .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Observant		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-214</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Observant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 06:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-214</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At a recent public forum CERA representatives stressed that &#039;cyclists will need to learn to share the road&#039; in response to how will commuter cyclists get across the new central city. They totally miss the point that the interested but concerned will find sharing roads, even at 30K, too intimidating to try. And you can forget about parents letting their children ride. 

Share an Idea clearly expressed the need, desire and support from the 30+% of non-cyclists who want to have real transport choice. This plan is a mid twentieth century plan with some cycling suggested &#039;where necessary&#039; and when we get around to it. Routes are inadequate, incomplete and too often little more than a line on a map. Desire lines, obvious routes are left out.

It is a big ask for CERA to expect us to trust them to get it right. If CERA wanted the community to trust them they should have opened up the process from the start. 

I can understand the hopes expressed here. People in Chch have been waiting for genuine cycling infrastructure for decades. We have had numerous Cycle Strategy&#039;s which have remained unfunded and unrealized. With Gerry at the helm I can only say &#039;Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.&#039;

If we want cycling in Chch and in this plan we will need to make hundreds of submissions. Possibly we will be ignored, even castigated for being ungrateful. Still, we have been polite and ignored for years. It is time to be polite but firm and very persistent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At a recent public forum CERA representatives stressed that &#8216;cyclists will need to learn to share the road&#8217; in response to how will commuter cyclists get across the new central city. They totally miss the point that the interested but concerned will find sharing roads, even at 30K, too intimidating to try. And you can forget about parents letting their children ride. </p>
<p>Share an Idea clearly expressed the need, desire and support from the 30+% of non-cyclists who want to have real transport choice. This plan is a mid twentieth century plan with some cycling suggested &#8216;where necessary&#8217; and when we get around to it. Routes are inadequate, incomplete and too often little more than a line on a map. Desire lines, obvious routes are left out.</p>
<p>It is a big ask for CERA to expect us to trust them to get it right. If CERA wanted the community to trust them they should have opened up the process from the start. </p>
<p>I can understand the hopes expressed here. People in Chch have been waiting for genuine cycling infrastructure for decades. We have had numerous Cycle Strategy&#8217;s which have remained unfunded and unrealized. With Gerry at the helm I can only say &#8216;Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.&#8217;</p>
<p>If we want cycling in Chch and in this plan we will need to make hundreds of submissions. Possibly we will be ignored, even castigated for being ungrateful. Still, we have been polite and ignored for years. It is time to be polite but firm and very persistent.</p>
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		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 08:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This discussion is on the mark - yes we need to bring it the attention of the decision makers CCDU etc. Cycling from my suburb Spreydon to the city to work i turn onto the Brougham &quot;highway&quot; after turning right from Selwyn st, then left down Gasson onto Madras, into the cycle utopia of the inner core.. and relax. improved Infrastructre for (hate to say it) safe cycling needs to be a city wide thing not just inside the choc box world of our new city plan.
One of my rewards for cycling to work is biking past gridlocked cars, sometimes stretching from Moorhouse ave to Lincoln road Opawa rd intersection. It&#039;s a statement.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion is on the mark &#8211; yes we need to bring it the attention of the decision makers CCDU etc. Cycling from my suburb Spreydon to the city to work i turn onto the Brougham &#8220;highway&#8221; after turning right from Selwyn st, then left down Gasson onto Madras, into the cycle utopia of the inner core.. and relax. improved Infrastructre for (hate to say it) safe cycling needs to be a city wide thing not just inside the choc box world of our new city plan.<br />
One of my rewards for cycling to work is biking past gridlocked cars, sometimes stretching from Moorhouse ave to Lincoln road Opawa rd intersection. It&#8217;s a statement.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lennyboy		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lennyboy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting discussions; it seems like the powers-that-be at CERA were damned if they didn&#039;t include cycling in this Plan and damned if they did... 

I suspect it is tricky to pre-judge CERA too much on the basis of what previous City Councils did (or didn&#039;t do) pre-quake - we clearly have a game-changer in what has occurred over the past two years.

Also it does need reminding that this is a CENTRAL CITY plan - clearly with transport, how that connects to the rest of the city is important but that wasn&#039;t their brief. For the wider city&#039;s transport, readers might like to have a look at the findings from the recent Chch Transport Plan Hearings - http://resources.ccc.govt.nz/files/TheCouncil/meetingsminutes/agendas/2012/November/12OnlyCouncil22Nov12.pdf#nameddest=DraftChristchurchTransportPlan (warning: 30MB).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussions; it seems like the powers-that-be at CERA were damned if they didn&#8217;t include cycling in this Plan and damned if they did&#8230; </p>
<p>I suspect it is tricky to pre-judge CERA too much on the basis of what previous City Councils did (or didn&#8217;t do) pre-quake &#8211; we clearly have a game-changer in what has occurred over the past two years.</p>
<p>Also it does need reminding that this is a CENTRAL CITY plan &#8211; clearly with transport, how that connects to the rest of the city is important but that wasn&#8217;t their brief. For the wider city&#8217;s transport, readers might like to have a look at the findings from the recent Chch Transport Plan Hearings &#8211; <a href="http://resources.ccc.govt.nz/files/TheCouncil/meetingsminutes/agendas/2012/November/12OnlyCouncil22Nov12.pdf#nameddest=DraftChristchurchTransportPlan" rel="nofollow ugc">http://resources.ccc.govt.nz/files/TheCouncil/meetingsminutes/agendas/2012/November/12OnlyCouncil22Nov12.pdf#nameddest=DraftChristchurchTransportPlan</a> (warning: 30MB).</p>
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		By: rupert		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rupert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 23:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just squandered the last half hour I&#039;m going to spend actually reading this plan.  It&#039;s tokenism and plays to the central city rebuild hype which to some extent is a given - the Avon was always going to be &#039;cyclified&#039; and &#039;pedestrianised&#039;.  The cycling masses are supposed to be placated with this; well we are not. It is junk plan and does not address the ratepayers sentiments as expressed in the share an idea. 

Maybe that was just spin; &#039;we&#039;ve ticked the consultation box, we have allowed the ratepayers to write on coloured paper&#039;. .&#039;excellent..&#039;....&#039;more tea minister...&#039;  

I&#039;m with Robert on this. Where&#039;s the infrastructure to get to quiet, leafy, picturesque cycling in the Frame. I want to be a Central City Chardonnay Cyclist but I want a safer way to get there, must I drive???.  I want my children to be able to go places on their bikes without having to mix it with big trucks. Where is the plan for this level of equity. 

What&#039;s so hard about this - its not the money, so it must be the thinking. Think about the rugby stadium in this town, then think about what is not written, and what is not happening about cycling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just squandered the last half hour I&#8217;m going to spend actually reading this plan.  It&#8217;s tokenism and plays to the central city rebuild hype which to some extent is a given &#8211; the Avon was always going to be &#8216;cyclified&#8217; and &#8216;pedestrianised&#8217;.  The cycling masses are supposed to be placated with this; well we are not. It is junk plan and does not address the ratepayers sentiments as expressed in the share an idea. </p>
<p>Maybe that was just spin; &#8216;we&#8217;ve ticked the consultation box, we have allowed the ratepayers to write on coloured paper&#8217;. .&#8217;excellent..&#8217;&#8230;.&#8217;more tea minister&#8230;&#8217;  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Robert on this. Where&#8217;s the infrastructure to get to quiet, leafy, picturesque cycling in the Frame. I want to be a Central City Chardonnay Cyclist but I want a safer way to get there, must I drive???.  I want my children to be able to go places on their bikes without having to mix it with big trucks. Where is the plan for this level of equity. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s so hard about this &#8211; its not the money, so it must be the thinking. Think about the rugby stadium in this town, then think about what is not written, and what is not happening about cycling.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The cynic in me has to question the purpose of  the glossy CBD pictures with cyclists featuring prominently .Yes they look happy and relaxed , but how did they get to the CBD ??. Unless you live just west of Hagley Park your travel to the CBD would have been fraught with frustration and risk . A risk for sure I am (un) happy to take , but the &quot;closet&quot; cyclists referred to certainly won&#039;t be. Until there is some actual infrastructure built around the city in a cohesive and integrated fashion these pretty pictures and generalised sweetner statements are pretty meaningless , in my option .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cynic in me has to question the purpose of  the glossy CBD pictures with cyclists featuring prominently .Yes they look happy and relaxed , but how did they get to the CBD ??. Unless you live just west of Hagley Park your travel to the CBD would have been fraught with frustration and risk . A risk for sure I am (un) happy to take , but the &#8220;closet&#8221; cyclists referred to certainly won&#8217;t be. Until there is some actual infrastructure built around the city in a cohesive and integrated fashion these pretty pictures and generalised sweetner statements are pretty meaningless , in my option .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cyclomaniac		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-209</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cyclomaniac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-209</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good to see your opinion here Morris because the more discussion about this topic the better! But are you suggesting that we should be happy with whatever is promised to us? This issue here is accountability. Cycling is enormously topical in Christchurch and it is no surprise that you find many references of cycling in this document. Policy makers have discovered the feel good factor of cycling and this is progress. The problem is accountability. This proposal is costing tax and rate payers billions and the public needs to know that the money is well spent.  The problem that this proposal is open for wide interpretation.

For example:

Where necessary, roads
that are prioritised for cycling will have
separated cycle lanes to allow safe routes
for all users. Other streets may also have
improved, safer cycle facilities.

What does &quot;necessary&quot; and &quot;may&quot; mean in this context? Can we please see the criteria for this? What about time frames? The devil is in the detail and the detail is missing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see your opinion here Morris because the more discussion about this topic the better! But are you suggesting that we should be happy with whatever is promised to us? This issue here is accountability. Cycling is enormously topical in Christchurch and it is no surprise that you find many references of cycling in this document. Policy makers have discovered the feel good factor of cycling and this is progress. The problem is accountability. This proposal is costing tax and rate payers billions and the public needs to know that the money is well spent.  The problem that this proposal is open for wide interpretation.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>Where necessary, roads<br />
that are prioritised for cycling will have<br />
separated cycle lanes to allow safe routes<br />
for all users. Other streets may also have<br />
improved, safer cycle facilities.</p>
<p>What does &#8220;necessary&#8221; and &#8220;may&#8221; mean in this context? Can we please see the criteria for this? What about time frames? The devil is in the detail and the detail is missing.</p>
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		By: rupert		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rupert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#039;...Private developers will also be encouraged to provide their own bike parking...&#039; 

Cr Tim Carter has already been in the Press outlining a tour of a new building with the developer, and how he was told of the cutbacks, short-cuts, take outs ...to keep the cost down. 

So the question is &#039;How will they be encouraged?&#039;
This the great throwaway line.  If at this point in the planning there is no positional information for bike parking, we are left with the inevitable conclusion that it doesn&#039;t exist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;&#8230;Private developers will also be encouraged to provide their own bike parking&#8230;&#8217; </p>
<p>Cr Tim Carter has already been in the Press outlining a tour of a new building with the developer, and how he was told of the cutbacks, short-cuts, take outs &#8230;to keep the cost down. </p>
<p>So the question is &#8216;How will they be encouraged?&#8217;<br />
This the great throwaway line.  If at this point in the planning there is no positional information for bike parking, we are left with the inevitable conclusion that it doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		By: rupert		</title>
		<link>https://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2012/11/20/will-christchurch-be-an-accessible-city-for-cycling/#comment-207</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rupert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 03:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/?p=1331#comment-207</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have only been in Christchurch since early 2000&#039;s. Several plans have been and gone over that time and nothing much has happened.  And what is in place is highly localised and lacks connectivity; some of it is actually pretty lightweight.  Also, what is negative about scrutinising the expenditure of our tax and rate money. last time I looked we were in a democracy.

I don&#039;t see 21st Century cycling infrastructure as being a gift that I should be grateful for, like broadband, it really is a right.

There has to be equity in the transport infrastructure; 13 - 14 yr old kids can&#039;t drive and many older people can&#039;t either. I would assert that they should have access to safe dedicated cycleways like most other places in the developed world. And grown ups who need a low cost transport option, or who just want to cycle, should also have that. Are you saying that is unreasonable?

With that in mind, I&#039;ll challenge anything that purports to deliver this, but  lacks the detail to make the announcement credible. I also want people like you to have access to a much improved infrastructure, even though it seems you would settle for a lot less. Morris Oxford - that&#039;s very &#039;50s. Look at the bottom right corner of your monitor, it&#039;s 2012.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only been in Christchurch since early 2000&#8217;s. Several plans have been and gone over that time and nothing much has happened.  And what is in place is highly localised and lacks connectivity; some of it is actually pretty lightweight.  Also, what is negative about scrutinising the expenditure of our tax and rate money. last time I looked we were in a democracy.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see 21st Century cycling infrastructure as being a gift that I should be grateful for, like broadband, it really is a right.</p>
<p>There has to be equity in the transport infrastructure; 13 &#8211; 14 yr old kids can&#8217;t drive and many older people can&#8217;t either. I would assert that they should have access to safe dedicated cycleways like most other places in the developed world. And grown ups who need a low cost transport option, or who just want to cycle, should also have that. Are you saying that is unreasonable?</p>
<p>With that in mind, I&#8217;ll challenge anything that purports to deliver this, but  lacks the detail to make the announcement credible. I also want people like you to have access to a much improved infrastructure, even though it seems you would settle for a lot less. Morris Oxford &#8211; that&#8217;s very &#8217;50s. Look at the bottom right corner of your monitor, it&#8217;s 2012.</p>
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